In this conversation, Eric Ries, visionary founder and author of "The Lean Startup", speaks with Maike Kauffmann (Purpose Foundation) about his new book "Incorruptible", which explores the deeper systemic forces that shape how businesses behave, and what it takes for organisations to remain true to their purpose over time.

Together, we dove into the themes from the book and discussed with Eric how his thinking aligns with steward-ownership, why he chose a different name, and how we can join forces to rethink ownership and the role of business in society today.